Cheato Flores

Why Carroll’s red card won’t be overturned

It’s enough to make your blood boil, those diving, cheating football players who writhe around in agony at the slightest physical contact with the sole intent of getting an opponent sent off. That is undoubtedly what Chico Flores did yesterday in the Swansea game, and it worked. Had Flores not fallen over, or even fallen over without the histrionics, it is fairly likely that Carroll would have stayed on the pitch. The fans (probably of both sides), the West Ham players (and probably most of the Swansea players apart from Flores), the managers, the media – everyone has said that the red card was harsh and should not have happened. West Ham have, of course, stated their intention to appeal. But what is the likelihood of the red card being rescinded? Rather slim, in my opinion, and rather gets my goat.

In order to get the red card overturned, there has to be no evidence of intent to harm/injure the opponent. Yes, Flores was climbing all over Carroll and yes, Carroll should probably have got a free kick. But looking at all the evidence in the cold light of day, Carroll looked to have flung his arm back in Flores’ direction in frustration. Look at the video here:

I know he only brushed the top of his head, but in the law of the game there only has to be intent. The powers that be will look at the evidence and the referees report, and obviously a lot depends on what Howard Webb puts in it. It is clear though that Webb consulted his linesman before reaching a decision, and I am guessing that the lino was asked if he saw any intent. He obviously thought he did and I think that is what swayed Webb’s decision too, as well as Flores’ disgusting behaviour.

I don’t agree with this and it makes me angry, as without Carroll, West Ham seem to lack any potent attacking whatsoever. Three games without him means not many points when we need them desperately. The law is an ass and needs to be changed. Christ, Norman Hunter would be turning in his grave! There is no room for common sense in the laws these days it seems.

I hope I am wrong but I just can’t see the decision being reversed. Maybe Webb will change his mind about his decision and state so, but I can’t see it happening myself. In an ideal world it would, and Flores would get a two match ban for simulation. Here’s hoping!

25 thoughts on “Why Carroll’s red card won’t be overturned

  1. steviez

    Chico the cheat it was good acting they must have a class for that also, the evidence is there to give Chico a 3 match ban for cheating

  2. Peter Creak

    Having read Mark Halsey The Whistleblower in the the Sunday Sun today he states that he was really annoyed by Chico’s reaction and all the rolling around on the ground after his tussle with Carroll. He said Carroll did swing his arm,but Chico did everything he could to make sure Carroll was sent off,he thinks the PFA Need to get hold of this sort of behaviour by players.He said Webb has to decide from his point of view,whether Carroll’s swinging arm was a deliberate act of violence (red card) or reckless use of the arm which is only a yellow card.He said if West Ham make an appeal ,they will be keen to point out that it was reckless and not violent use of the arm. I hope that it goes in favour of Carroll and justice is seen to be done and cheats do NOT prosper. I would like to see divers and cheaters more severely punished.

  3. Jayeff

    Fully understand where you are coming from and it is very difficult to see who fouled who, but my view is that Flores commits the foul on Carroll in the first place. Also, no way was Carroll looking at where Flores was, so how could there be any intention. And finally, in viewing the video at
    does anyone else agree with me that Flores also swings an arm at Carroll, which to me looks as though there is more intention meant than Carroll.
    Whatever the result, the FA should be doing more about the ‘Cheats’ in our games. All clubs have them but it needs to be stamped out. Flores cheated to get a fellow professional sent off. He cheated, we all know that, so why don’t the FA view these instances and if they are found guilty, the get an automatic 5 match ban. Make it a worse crime than a straight sending off and it would stop overnight.

    1. Englandsnumber6

      Yes Flores did have a swing at Carroll but missed, so it’s all down to did Carroll have a violent intent weather or not he actually connected. I have watched it a hundred times from all angles, and my opinion is that Andy Carroll’s momentum as he threw Chico off his back was like a helicopter arm swing and chico was on the floor and then got up, so I think it was just momentum. The only one who knows if there was any intent is Andy, also Webb is pointing to a Whu free kick, then looks away. So he didn’t see it either.

  4. Cornellyjack

    I’m dumbfounded as to how nobody is mentioning carroll’s intentional first half elbow into chico’s face, which chico got up from with no fuss. Carroll’s intent for the 2nd one was to injure chico but he luckily missed. Who can blame chico for making the most of it. Perhaps next time he wouldn’t have been so fortunate and would have ended up with a fractured jaw. Exactly same happened when carroll played for newcastle against swansea in championship. He got away with it yet again even though his victim garry monk wad ruled out for a few weeks. Andy carroll is a thug in a football kit end of

    d when carroll played f
    or newcatle in championship down swansea when he put an elbow into garry monk which he got away with YET AGAIN but put mon

    1. Spin

      No one has mentioned it, because it has no relevance to the red card, you cant debate a red card and mention what may or may not have happened earlier in the game let alone earlier in his career

  5. Will earle

    Absolute disgrace , that is why the game is ruined because of people like Chico Flores , 10 years ago this stuff wouldn’t have been picked up when playing against the likes of Duncan ferguson you would expect it how times have changed !!!! COYI !!!!

  6. Geoff

    Agree wholeheartedly however do wonder why the word ‘simulation’ has recently been used to label a clear act of cheating. It’s like calling my mate follically-challenged when everyone can see he’s bald!

  7. rugbyirons

    You want the FA to make a common sense and just decision in favour of non cheating football.not a chance they are too cowardly to get it right

  8. Dan

    Good article I also am pesimistic about the appeal being over turned. I believe you can argue Carroll didnt do it intentionally. But if we’re being realistic……….. Chico is a diving scum and always had been. Ever since I’ve seen him play he’s been scum. Unfortunately for us and caroll he has to rise above it and not get involved. Try to break his legs in a tackle would’ve been smarter.. I think our only chance of it being over turned is down to Michael laudrupt who when interviewed said twice he felt it was very harsh.. Fingers crossed.. Great article though as am tired of seeing people act like caroll did nothing wrong. It was silly of him.

  9. Shaz

    Only when the FA get tough against this sort of behaviour will players stop cheating – chico (better known as cheato) should be red carded and banned for 3 matches as should any player who blatantly cheats its no different to what is deemed as a professional foul – trying to gain an advantage by foul means – if players start picking up bans for this behaviour they would soon put a stop to it!

  10. swansea jack

    Where to start watch the video Andy flick on clearly swings his arm in temper theirs the intent and a reason for the red and it wont get rescinded, chico was embarrassing dont like to see that behaviour but their is no law about rolling around like a clown,every game carrol plays (not many) he elbows someone perhaps sort him out chicos tactics worked now u will have 3 games without him possibly 4 good luck without him we lost 3 points but u guna lose 9 so go blow your bubbles in tje chumpionship

  11. Stuperman

    On the point of intesnt. After having a quick look at the video clip it seems clear to me that there isn’t even intent in the arm swing. The reason I say this is because if you study the footage, his whole arm is limp when swinging. no clench fist or ever tight hand.

    Anyone who has ever hit anyone with intent (or even those that haven’t) know that if you hit with relaxed muscle then the chances are that you will injusre yourself. Its just a natural reaction when striking to prevent self injury.

    Do it now, put yourself in Carrols position in the clip and imagine yourself swining your arm round at Flores (Easy to do right?) and imagine a loose, limp arm. chances are, you will flinch or grimace as you know it will prob hurt your arm. Do it tense, and you know it won’t hurt.

    However if you are swinging your arm in mid arm to regain balance then you wouldn’t care less if your arm was limp.

  12. Dave

    As much as it pains me to lose Carroll at such a vital stage of the season – yep he definitely intended to land his flailing arm on Chico – professional centre forwards don’t need to be eyeballing the centre-half to show intent – he knew Chico was behind him as he was hanging off his back at the time – take a look at Carrolls face (e.g gritted teeth) as his arm makes contact

    The rules are there to discourage players doing things that are dangerous – e.g. planting an elbow in someone’s eye socket

    Its the same argument when someone launches a two footed tackle but luckily misses the man – the rule is in place to stop players launching into tackles that will potentially end someone’s career – irrespective of whether they make contact or not

    Particularly annoying in this case but that’s why these rules exist re: dangerous play – keep your arms/elbows down – keep your studs down – and you stay on the pitch – simples!

  13. Stuperman

    Just wanted to correct some typos…..

    On the point of *intent*
    swinging you arm in mid *air*

    Sorry, minor OCD meant I couldn’t bear to read it again with out correcting myself!

  14. Fobyac

    The fact that Swansea fans are trying to defend Chico says everything about them.
    It’s a shame because their manager has shown a lot of class.
    The sooner cheats like Flores are thrown out of the game the better it will be for all.

  15. Mark

    I personally think they both should have been sent off. Chico’s rolling around on the floor like he was shot is disgraceful. He should have had a yellow for play acting and a yellow card for the foul on Carroll. Unfortunately tho there is intent on Carroll’s behalf. He spins almost 360 degrees to hit Chico which is not a natural movement and the look on his face when he realised the ref caught him was of guilt. I think he was unlucky as at no point do I think he tried to catch Chico in the face. I think he tried to give him a dig in the chest area. Regardless tho he did mean to hit him. It’s a same for him as he showed his quality in that game and he owes the hammers a lot. They spent a lot of money on him and he’s been injured, this isn’t the first time but hopefully the last time. Hammers fans deserve more from him and instead of blaming others they should also like at Carroll’s actions first. Ultimately Carroll shouldn’t have put himself in the position to be sent off.

  16. Dave

    Chico the clown Flores, should not have got Andy Carroll in a head lock and not released his hold as he could have broken Andy Carroll’s neck. If this is not dangerous play then I don’t know what is! HOWARD WEBB should control his obvious dislike of WHU. and deal with the likes of Flores and protect good honest pro’s.


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